Re: IML: Imperial Brakes

[Brad Hogg <luxoliner@xxxxxxx>]

Well said Fred, and I agree with Randal 100%.  A driver must drive according 
to road conditions and the capabilities of their automobile.  Not being able 
to stop in time is a function of driving too fast and/or too close for 
conditions.  (someone running a light in front of you is a rare exception 
but defensive driving can dramatically reduce even this occurance)  Yes, go 
ahead and come up with all kinds of reasons this is not the case but you'll 
simply be showing your ignorance and immature attitude toward driving.  It's 
a simple fact.  If you hit stuff, you're driving too fast for conditions. 
(Only General Motors will tell you in their TV ads that because their SUV 
has the Advances Traction Control System that you don't have to adjust your 
driving to changing road conditions because the vehicle does that for you. 
Nice going GM!  Ignorant and irresponsible!)

The brakes on these cars were fine in the 50's and 60's.  Has physics 
changed since then?  No.  What has changed then?  Or attitudes have changed 
is all.  The way we drive has changed.  What we expect of our late model 
cars has changed.  A properly maintained 50 year old car has not changed and 
it is working according to the same laws of physics as it did 50 years ago. 
A 50 year old car does NOT have the same capabilities as a late model car. 
A driver must adapt their attitude toward driving to the capabilities of the 
machine they are in control of.  Cars don't drive themselves, people drive 
cars, use the brains the good Lord gave you to keep from hitting stuff.

I would tend to disagree with the statement that manufacturers use disk 
brakes now solely because they are better.  Like many "improvements" in 
design, I suggest that modern disk brakes are in use largley due to 
production cost.  Disk brakes are far less complex than drum brakes and I 
suggest that this is a major reason behind their continued popularity among 
manufacturers.  The auto maker only wants to sell you what they can, not 
what you need.  They will tell you all about how they are mostly concerned 
with your safety and that's why they have disk brakes on the cars they sell. 
Yea, right!  The only concern a auto maker has is staying in business and 
making a profit.  Anything they do will service these core values, without 
exception.  This is why there are government regulations that mandate 
certain standards that cars must meet to be allowed to be sold to the 
public.  If there's wheren't, just imagine what would be sold today as an 
automobile!  They want to produce the car as cheaply as possible and include 
enough "innovation" to catch your attention in the TV ads etc.  FWD is a 
perfect example.  This move is strictly a cost cutting measure.  The 
marketing will tell you all about how it is better than RWD.  Yes, there may 
be some advantages to FWD but that is NOT why the auto maker produces it. 
FWD is cheap to make, that's why they make it.

I'm not saying disk brakes are not better than drums.  If you're taking that 
from my post then you've totally missed the point of my writing and you 
should possibly give it another read.  If you care to argue that disk brakes 
ARE superior, then argue with someone else because you're preaching to the 
choir.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick Joslin" <fljoslin@xxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Imperial Brakes


I agree with much of what you say about drivers and maintenance, but I
really do not believe that drum brakes are a good design They may
be adequate when in perfect condition and adjusted exactly. However,
these conditions are not generally true of cars. If you have a vehicle
that you drive rarely and check the brakes frequently, you can get
relatively good stopping (until they get hot) from drum brakes.

Drum brakes are OK at the back where only about 30% of the braking
occurs.

Why was there a move to front discs and finally four wheel discs? Because
it is a better design which is much more forgiving of maintenance
neglect.

I personally would not own another car with front drum brakes. Imperial
made a bold move by moving to front discs in 1967. In my opinion the very
very worst thing that you can do as a driver is to cause an accident
because you could not stop in time. It makes me chuckle when I go to car
shows and see all of the 50's Chevies and many others with many $ spent
(blown big blocks etc) and then you realize that they have the factory
brakes (single reservoir master cylinder, front drums).

Things happen and disc brakes stop better.

If some moron decides to lay on the brakes in front of you for no reason,
it is your bad if you hit him.

What is an acceptable stopping distance for a passenger car today? Not
what it was 40 years ago.

This is a contentious issue and each person must make their own decisions
and live with them.

Drive safely.

1969 LeBaron with front discs

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: randalpark@xxxxxxx
  To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: IML: Imperial Brakes
  Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:59:29 -0400

  Our lovely behemoths stop in far less space than a semi, and those
  are everywhere. I've said it before, and I will say it again more
  politely this time, that it is perfectly okay to drive these cars as
  long as they are in safe condition and us drivers adjust or driving
  to the vehicle. To me that is part of the responsibility of sharing
  the road. Myriads of close encounters of the bad kind are usually
  more related to the person having them than to the others on the
  road. Our cars had some of the best drum brakes ever built, so if
  they don't feel right when they are coming to a halt, they need to be
  repaired or adjusted. Anyone who thinks that their car is unsafe,
  should keep it in the garage. I happen to know that mine are not, so
  they get out on the road whenever possible. Paul W.
 



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