From: Larry <ltny@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 400vrs 440
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:04:43 -0500
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Is there any down side to the 346 heads, other than that they don't have
hardened seats? How do they compare to 906's and 452's? I found a 400
engine with 346 heads for $100.
Larry
>
> From: Don Dulmage <big-d@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 2004/04/10 Sat AM 08:53:41 CDT
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: 400vrs 440
>
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> Nothng wrong with Chucks advice except to say this is how we often get
of base . "A 440 will not live above 650hp.( Questionable comment at best
(seems to me at least) as a 440 shares the same dimensions as the hemi and
no one in there right mind would say the hemi would not live a above 650. )
> First off we are not talking about building a 650 hp motor so the point
is totally irrelavant and i do mean "Totaly". A high 500hp 440 will live
forever.
> Secondly we are talking about a stock type build as opposed to the High
dollar approach which Muscle M and the boys there are used to.
> It depends what you have available. If you have a 440 then it will
always cost less to build than the 451 /400 variety . If you don't have a
440 but 400s are everywhere to be found then that makes the whole deal
different.
> A VERY strong 400 could be built using a good 400 block and a slight
overbore and the stock crank. Pistons are now available from Keith Black
and are KB240. They come in 020 030 040 and i believe 060. I would go for
the least overbore the block will stand as 400s (and 383s) tend to get a
bit warm .
> The stock rods are very stong and just resizing them with good bolts
will make for a very stout assembly. Total seal rings , while not a must
are an exremely good investment. Getting the deck heights as close to 0 as
possible is time well spent.
> A good set of heads. (346 or 452s preferred) with 2.14 or 2.18 intakes
and 1.74 exhaust (you could put in the 1.81s if you desire although the
engine will be very strong with the 1.74s) Ccing the heads is very
important.(80ccs min , no more than 84cc max for street) Do the bowl work
under the intakes , clean up the exhaust and gasket match the ports is all
that is needed for the heads. A cam with over 500 lift (525 preferred ) and
a fair chunk of duration (240+ at 050") with a set of the new MP single
valve springs for .540 lift. will round out the package. Be sure to
shorten the guides as they are too long in these heads for the bigger cams
(Retainer will hit the valve seal) When installing teflon oil seals this is
automatic as the cutter takes care of it.
> Stock rockers and pushrods work fine. Aftermarket pushrods are a bit
lighter )Sealed Power or TRW and just as strong)
> A good intake works well such as a Edelbrock Perormer RPM (preferred
choice) Carb must be big enough to feed the motor . 800 would be perfect, A
reworked (no choke housing ) 3310 Holley will also do the job. Headers
should have the same size ID as the exhaust valve or very close (ie 1 3/4s
to 1 7/8 primary). Collectors could be lengthened about 7 to 8 inches (even
with mufflers for street work) . Distributor should provide 32 to 34 total
advance at 2700 to 3000 RPm with a very short curve.
> Engine will be very strong .
> Our Cheapy was built before the KB were available so we used reworked
440 + .030" pistons. (.010" in the 400 block ) but I would now use the
KB240s (yes even though they are not my favourites) as they are well suited
to this application.
> Keep clearances on the high or looser side as nothing will kill a BB
Mopar quicker than a Small Chevy style build where everything is tighter.
(they are tighter because dimensions are smaller but machinists who build a
lot of Chevys don't seem to realize that.) Rule of thumb for clearances is
and always has been .001" per inch of diameter. It will never get you in
trouble if you use that as a guideline.
> We try to always use the three bolt cam set up and prefer the stock six
pack , hemi style timing gear set over the exotic tru roller stuff. (Stays
tight longer because there are fewer parts involved.)
> The one we built was installed in a 82 Mirada weighing 3450 and having
4.56 gears with 31 inch tire. It went 11.55 at 120 MPH consistantly. Had he
had a descent converter (AKA Dynmaic Race) it would have dropped the et at
least 2 to 3 tenths. Engine is be totally streetable and runs on sunoco 94.
Cam is Hydraulic.
> Before those who would question this deal say anything let me please say
this. Like our other stuff we tell about. We didn't think about this or
dream it we actually did it and it is here alive and running, so that means
only one thing , You can do it too.
> If you would like to talk with the owner I can give you his email.
> For the 440 the Old Reliable set up with a similar cam would be very
very hard to beat. Same manifold but 850 to 870 carb would do the trick
with a similar cam .
> Don
> Either engine should be able to be built (minus manifold and carb of
course) for under $2500 which is probably a real big problem because right
now someone is sitting there thinking, "Bull! You can't build a strong
engine for that!" but you can and we have , several times.
> (So if that is you we will build you the same motor for $10000 and will
paint it gold as well, just so you won't feel like you got a second rate
deal.)
> And it isn't no wussy either. It will put away motors costing many
times as much and will live forever if you take care of it. Anyway that is
the deal , Enjoy
> Don
>
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Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended
recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect
your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content
signal to Mopar topic. Thanks!
'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
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