Re: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Time and age (of the owners as well as the cars) can get away from you.

The first thing I always did/do after acquiring an old car was to inspect/change the three rubber brake lines (one to each front wheel and the one on the rear axle). I bought my G in 1998 and that was the first thing I did as the hoses appeared to be original on the 38K mile car. I also did the idler arm and front ball and trunion. Years turn into decades at this age, and 'suddenly' those 'new' hoses I put on are 27 years old again! Similar things can happen on other systems and fluids- Leaving brake fluid in way too long, what about gear oil in the diff? Antifreeze/coolant? Unless anything is leaking out and leaving telltale spots, it's easy to lose track of time. Where is the line between time/distance and 'preventive maintenance' vs. 'if it ain't broke....'.

In the 80's I used a 62 non-letter as a daily driver because I thought it was a much cooler car than anything from the late 70's or early 80's. I used a 73 Duster as a driver in the 90's. When you're using a 20 or 25 year old car all the time, belts, hoses, tuneups, brake jobs, shocks, fluids are all dealt with much more frequently than when you have multiple antiques and a modern daily driver and the old cars only get a couple thousand miles a year on them. It's been a long time since I changed a water pump, alternator, or fuel pump on anything. Do you do it 'just because' it's been so long, or maybe start putting extra stress on the leaf springs by carrying spares 'just in case'? Don't forget the tires, too! Chances are they're going to dry rot/age out long before they wear out.

Last year I had what I thought was a possible electrical issue with alternator/regulator. It turned out that my 8 year old battery was no longer taking a full charge.

On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 1:28 PM dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Jack- That is why I and others here get vociferous when someone says DOT 5 causes problems. DOT 5 is the best possible safety improvement that can be made to an old, seldom driven car.

By the way, the simple reason why White Post and other manufacturers and suppliers void their warranties with DOT 5 use is that DOT 5 does require more care in bleeding. When that care is not taken the parts are returned (can't get a pedal must be the Master). Manufacturers know DOT 5 works great and is compatible with EDPM and most rubbers used in brake parts.

But they also know that many folks using DOT 5 for the first time may not know what they are doing, and so they prefer you use DOT 3, less likely to have a failed bleed session and the parts coming back.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2025 1:24pm
To: "'Chrysler 300 Club International'" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "'dave mason'" <forwardlook300@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Don’t forget there is a primer on brake fluids at: https://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/fluid/brakefluid.html

I will not use NOS rubber parts of any kind. I want fresh parts. In years prior - all brake parts in the US were designed to be compatible with 3.0.

In 2025 the concern remains – are the rubber parts you are using compatible with 5.0? only the manufacturer can say if their parts are compatible.

I have silicone in my ’46, ’52, ’55 Since I upgraded to a new system and my ’71. I have had zero issues because the rubber is compatible with 5.0. The 5.0 silicone remains clear and works great.

…Jack

From: 'dave mason' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2025 9:22 AM
To: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Henry please note Dot5.1 is not silicone. Do not use it if you intend to put silicone fluid in your system. Plain Dot5 is silicone.

D&K

Sent from my iPhone

On May 28, 2025, at 20:59, dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: "dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 8:58pm
To: "henry" <hamlll@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'James Douglas'" <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'John Grady'" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Ron Waters'" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Henry-

The China as inferior thing makes no sense to me. We once said that about Japanese goods now they are considered premium. China is the factory floor for the world who let it happen right, wrong or indifferent. Metric, yes but in many cases made in China wheel and master cylinders are all that is available. I've yet to be presented with a widget made in China demonstrated to be inferior to its alternative. But I too am often wrong.

Does anyone have negative experience with a Chinese made automotive part?

danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "henry" <hamlll@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 8:31pm
To: "'James Douglas'" <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'John Grady'" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Ron Waters'" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Has anyone who has had their wheel cylinders sleeved, whether it is brass or stainless steel, seen any corrosive reaction (like a stuck piston) between the aluminum piston and the sleeve? Wouldn’t there be a potential for galvanic corrosion between those dissimilar metals? Drawing experience from the plumbing world, copper water pipe (almost brass) and steel pipe must be isolated or massive corrosion occurs.

Did anyone who has had their wheel cylinders sleeved use a piston other than aluminum?

By the way….i could be wrong, often am, but I recall I read in a previous listserver discussion about brake fluid that Whitepost won’t warranty their work if you use brake fluid with silicone (DOT 5 or DOT 5.1).

I am fighting a brake problem: the brakes really stop the car well but the car wants to toggle left-right-left-right when I brake hard. I have about 1500-2000 miles on the new brake system. I know the wheel cylinders are inferior so I’m contemplating sleeving the wheel cylinders. I bought Raybestos thinking they were American-made but when I opened the box, the wheel cylinders had CHINA cast into them. To add insult to injury, the rear wheel cylinder bleeders are Metric. I gave up trying to buy superior wheel cylinders.

Henry Mitchell

300C

From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 3:48 PM
To: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Club International Chrysler <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

I make all those issues go away with sleeved wheel cylinders. I used to use Joe at Sierra who did all my Desoto’s in brass. Since he retired, I have not done any of them, but Whitepost does them in Stainless I think.

Joe thought brass was better as he explained to me that stainless requires a special hone or you get micro burs which can wear the seals, brass micro burs are soft enough the seal “laps” them down.

To me a material that is impervious to the standing water junk is the real solution to this issue. Then the fluid, not matter what, will not affect them.

I also think the new replacement cast is not the greatest so “new” ones will not always be the greatest. Old housings sleeved is very good solution.

James

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 2:39 PM
To: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Club International Chrysler <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

it seems several here ignore absolute fact that divot forms in bottom of wheel cylinder with glycol in long storage . I will ask all those in club who have seen the rust divots to say hello ? why you had to buy new ones …

Ron this exact failure happened in 5-6 mopars I owned . You know I have about 40 over its been 60 years now

I would not drive your cars 200 feet unless you want to end in someones trunk in a panic stop ( and total your car)

Discussion is crazy

On May 28, 2025, at 1:49 PM, 'Ron Waters' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Sorry Dan. But let’s just agree to disagree. As I said, feel free to do whatever works for you.

Ron

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 12:48 PM
To: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'Chrysler 300 Club International' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Ron-

I don't intend to debate you, however you are wrong, and being wrong about brakes can be deadly.

As to DOT 5, there is no "issue" with aeration in as you write, and I'm afraid folks reading here may be led astray. DOT aeration results from mishandling the bottle before a pour or incomplete or faulty bleeding, end of story. There are far too many of us using DOT 5 for over 25 years to abide by your claim.

You may wish to avoid spending your money on an inexpensive wheel cylinders but I don't think it is wise to instruct others to do so.

I've said my piece. Do as you please.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 12:09pm
To: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: "'Chrysler 300 Club International'" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Danny –

As I stated, whenever a wheel cylinder is replaced, the entire system should be flushed. There is no need to replace every wheel cylinder because one is defective.

The idea of ‘water laced’ brake fluid is a misnomer. Moisture gets into the lines. That moisture will either be absorbed by the fluid (DOT 3 or 4) or remain between the fluid and the inner wall (DOT 5) or gather at the connection (also DOT 5). Flushing out the fluid every few years is how it should be done. I stick with DOT 3 or 4, since I don’t want to deal with a soft pedal as a result of aeration of the fluid, which is an issue with DOT 5. But feel free to do whatever works best for you.

Ron

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 10:53 AM
To: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'Chrysler 300 Club International' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Ron-

The Ain't broke don't fix it maxim should not apply to hydraulic brakes, one of the few automotive systems whose condition is completely concealed and for which a driver is oblivious until its too late. The risk is exponentially increased by a single circuit system which provides no advance notice of the impending doom ahead.

Its all one system. water laced DOT 3 in one cylinder is in all cylinders including the master cylinder. Never look to save money on brakes.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Ron Waters' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 4:29pm
To: "'Chrysler 300 Club International'" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

Kurt –

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Just replace the leaking cylinder. Also, DOT 3 is indeed hygroscopic. That’s a good thing. Leave it as DOT 3, unless you are planning to replace the *entire* brake system. You’ll be doing a flush when you replace this leaking cylinder. Going forward, just change your fluid every three or four years and you’ll be fine.

Ron

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Kurt Brueske
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2025 4:15 PM
To: Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Wheel cylinder replacement advice

I could use some advice on whether I should replace all four wheel cylinders or just the cylinder that is leaking? Full disclosure this is for my ‘64 Imperial Crown Coupe, not a letter car, but figured the advice would also be beneficial to letter car owners as well.

I discovered the driver side rear is leaking and set out to replace ALL the wheel cylinders as a “preventive measure.” When I checked the condition of the other three cylinders, they all appear fine but I suspect they’re old - “Wagner Lockheed - Made in USA” is stamped on the housing and we all know how few automotive parts are made domestically these days.

Question: should I “leave well enough alone” or is there some benefit to replacing all four at once besides knowing they’re new?

I suspect hygroscopic DOT 3 brake fluid was previously used and the car sat for the better part of 20 years…some clumpy viscous residue in the bottom of the master cylinder. I was thinking replacing all four wheel cylinders would aid in a brake fresh and upgrade to DOT 5.

I appreciate the feedback and help.

Kurt

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